Bert: Ok. Here I am. Private. You wanted to accuse me of attacking our church group online? Because I'm saying that I think we need to repent of our dividedness? That we need to learn about accepting other Christians instead of avoiding them and being split up like we are? Thing is, I'm a bit upset because I just heard about another division my family's right in the middle of, and it's starting to sound like something old Brethren people do instead of lawn bowling or fly fishing. Apparently someone has started teaching that all true Christians are at the Lord's Table, and that there does not exist a True Gathering of Christians empowered by God to put people away, not from among themselves, but from the Lord's Own Table itself. And a whole lot of Brethren aren't going to worship with people who think THAT... In fact, they're going to exercise their own pretend right to put those people away from the Lord's Table right now, just to show they can do that. One of the last things Jesus said to Peter was "feed my lambs." That's our job. So, if we scatter the sheep, if we split up and abandon the lambs and blame them for "wandering off," we KNOW what animal does that, what animal that makes us. We know what animal culls the herd of the weaker ones. We know that we are no shepherds if we do this or let it happen. And if we gather in a group which has really no lambs left, or none that are staying long, we know what THAT potentially makes us: a bunch of old wolves, seeing who's got a tooth left, in geriatric games of biting and devouring one another.
Ernie: See? You keep attacking us. Why? Those who love you so much. I don't know why you can't see that. What have we ever done to you? You're saying we aren't correct about what we believe and practice regarding accepting and rejecting people. I don't know what makes you think you're so correct... Go start your own church and leave us alone. Go on. You obviously think you're righter than everyone else. Maybe YOU have the power to put people away from the Lord's Table instead of us?!
Bert: What I'm talking about is acceptance. I think Christians only have the authority to put people out from among themselves. But right now I'm talking about something other than power. I'm talking about love. I think we don't know how to accept people properly. How to connect warmly and kindly to other Christians. Without, you know, being all suspicious and paranoid and fighty. I think we should work on that.
Ernie: That sounds like an accusation. An attack. On those who love you. The Lord's People. You're not even a member anymore, so what gives you the gall to even comment?
Bert: You guys kicked me out and are shunning me. And you keep doing it over and over again to more and more people. I'm talking about that. It seems relevant to me. Seems to be something that affects me.
Ernie: C'mon, now. That's not really accurate. You hold unscriptural doctrine about accepting other Christians. You seem to want some dubious "connection" with anyone at all for whom Christ died! Therefore, you're dividing from us wilfully and rebelliously. The people who love you. Everyone knows you're not living a fitting life, nor going on well. And you're always accusing people of stuff. Attacking Christians.
Bert: What's not fitting? What am I doing that's "not going on well"?
Ernie: Never mind all that. You know very well what I mean. Everyone does.
Bert: Okay, but can I attend a bible conference, or eat at a church function anytime soon?
Ernie: No. We love you of course, but how could you be allowed? There was a very clear assembly decision in 1998 that you're a wicked person and they were, sadly, left with no choice whatsoever but to put you away from the Lord's Table! Those who love you had to do that!
Bert: For what?
Ernie: I have no idea. Not my place to know the details. And I don't want to know them. But that assembly decision was made, and we have to take that very seriously.
Bert: But you then divided from my church? The one that felt they had administrative authority over the Lord's own Table?
Ernie: I have no idea. Not my place to know the details. And I don't want to know them. But that assembly decision was made, and we have to take that very seriously.
Bert: But you then divided from my church? The one that felt they had administrative authority over the Lord's own Table?
Ernie: Yes. Of course we separated ourselves from their error. We love them so much, but we faithfully stepped back from their evil. Didn't want to, of course. We had to. They were legalistic, draconian and utterly lacking in love and grace, and even that didn't keep them walking rightly for the Lord. They don't know about how to accept the Christians they should be accepting. For instance, right now they're not accepting us. What's up with that?
Bert: And you, in turn, do not honour or accept anyone that they accept at worship? Like, if anyone they accept to worship showed up Sunday at your church, you would refuse to worship with those people because of their association?
Ernie: We'd have no other choice. We love them of course, but we clearly really need to separate from their lack of love by sadly refusing to worship with them. And with anyone they would worship with.
Bert: But you do honour their refusal to worship with me? Like, if I showed up to worship with you on a Sunday, you'd likewise exclude me, just as they are choosing to do, even though they're rejecting me?
Ernie: Well, obviously. We must. We must maintain Christian unity. Surely you understand this simple thing. We love you, but we really have no other choice.
Bert: Why?
Ernie: The bible! The divinely inspired Word of God! Does that mean anything to you at all?
Bert: But I don't want to be shunned anymore.
Ernie: Why not?
Bert: I don't like it. I want to be welcome to go to bible conferences and things if I want to. I want to reconnect with people, despite being maybe somewhat different from some of them.
Ernie: You CAN go to bible conferences if you want to. I don't know why you keep saying otherwise. You're completely welcome to come. We love you.
Bert: You're having one next month. Can I come?
Ernie: Of course. Yes...but we would just really, really ask you not to. You wouldn't put us in that awkward position, would you? People who love you and care about your spiritual life? You're not going to actually show up?
Bert: Why not?
Ernie: Well, we just really, really have to question your reason for wanting to attend what is essentially a celebration of our own collective correctness, when you don't even think we're correct at all! How can you claim to celebrate a correctness you do not even believe in? I mean, surely you must feel how very out of place you would be there? How it is just, you know, not a place for someone like you? How much you just don't belong there?
Bert: I just want to talk to people I grew up with and see if I can connect or relate to or believe anyone or anything I see there at all. They seem to see that as "an attack." The bible says we're one, and I don't feel very one with any of you, so I'm trying to reconcile that. It's confusing.
Ernie: Well, that is a very odd thing to say. Very odd. In fact, I really can't accept it as sincere. Not truly genuine. I think it's just a pretext to attack us and delight in our sadly divided state. Exactly the sort of thing people like you do.
Bert: Do you think I deserve to be shunned?
Ernie: It's not my place to know about any of that at all.
Bert: But you uphold the decision to shun me?
Ernie: We love you, but we have to, of course. Breaks our heart to have to do it, but we must.
Bert: Why?
Ernie: I already said. The bible. Christian unity.
Bert: Are you willing to discuss not shunning me anymore? Like, what that would look like?
Ernie: Like I already said, it's not our place to know anything about all that. We lack the details as to exactly what happened that would make it possible for us to understand why the shunning was necessary. And now, as we've had to step away from the men who made that judgment, our hands are tied. We love them in the Lord, but we can't just, you know, phone them and talk or anything.
Bert: Can I tell you about it all, then? I was there and everything...
Ernie: I'm sorry, no. We really can't. Bert, you know we love you, but sometimes...
Bert: What about obeying the parts in the bible about loving and accepting, all those verses about grace and forgiving brothers seventy times seven? Are you going to do any of that bible stuff at all?
Ernie: Well, anytime anyone is doing anything we feel is incorrect, according to our understanding of scripture, as I said already, our hands are tied. We simply CAN'T obey any of those love verses. Light verses trump love verses, as you well know. Just like the bible says. "Obedience is better than relationship." So now we have to show love by not showing love. We have to accept by rejecting. Love them the only way left to us: by pretending they've died. After all, we serve a God who will judge us if we go against the clear directives in His Word!
Bert: Against the parts of His Word that talk about excluding people, you mean?
Ernie: Yes.
Bert: What about going against all of those other parts of His word that talk about including, forgiving, accepting and restoring people?
Ernie: Well, we're not perfect. We don't claim to be. These are days of weakness. The Lord understands that we're doing our best. We fail every day. We love the Lord's People. And then people like you come along and attack us in such cheap ways! What kind of judgmental person does that?! You know nothing of love and grace. I hear no grace in your talk. None at all. Not to be rude, but you're a lot like your grandmother was, actually.
Bert: You're saying you're all weak and stuff, but you're still qualified to judge me to be deserving of perpetual shunning?
Ernie: No, I'm not saying that at all. Stop trying to put your twisty words in my mouth. I do not appreciate your doing that. I'm only saying we're not qualified to unshun you.
Bert: But you're qualified to decide to continue shunning me?
Ernie: Yes. Your words, not mine.
Bert: And for forever, too. Why?
Ernie: Like I said, the bible! The divinely inspired Word of God. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand...
Bert: But I don't like being shunned. I think it's a denial of bible stuff we're supposed to be living. Is there no way back for me?
Ernie: Are you willing to swear to not worship with any other Christians?
Bert: No.
Ernie: Well then, why are we even having this conversation? Look, you know we love you, but I'm a very busy man. I have people to disagree with today who have sworn that oath... As I'm sure you've heard, we're having a division this summer again. So sad, but we're all really excited. It should be a particularly faithful one. We're going to get Don Cherry and Ron McClean to commentate.
Bert: But what if I was willing to swear that oath? Would whatever is left of you after this summer's division you unshun me then?
Ernie: Ummm... Not for me to say, of course, but I really rather doubt it. Your fellow Christians had a problem with this very same argumentative, unsubmissive, questioning nature I'm seeing so clearly in this very conversation! It's so sick. You can't seem to stop accusing people of things. You clearly need medication to slow the racing of your thoughts. You are an accuser. Conversation with you isn't a positive thing at all. It doesn't build up. Isn't edifying.
Bert: I see. So I'm screwed? No way back to any Christian connection to any of you?
Ernie: That's such a vulgar way of putting it. And no. There is always a way back to the Lord, and to a path that truly honours Him. Of course there is. There has to be.
Bert: Okay, then what is the way back?
Ernie: That's not for us to say. But once you've found your way back to Him, you'll know it, because we'll all be there and we'll be able to have happy fellowship again. But we have nothing to do with where you are right now. That's all your doing.
Bert: You put me in this imaginary position to begin with and are keeping me here. And you feel you have some imaginary authority to shut me out of the Lord's Table itself, rather than merely from among yourselves too?
Ernie: Yes.
Bert: Why? What makes you think all of this?
Ernie: The bible. I already said that. You know the verses. We love you, but honestly, you are so frustrating...
Bert: And you're not worried about any withdrawal of blessing from God if you don't attempt any of the forgiveness, acceptance, restoration, love or kindness bible verses? You expect no repercussions for any of that? You still expect blessing from God on your gathering?
Ernie: Like I said, these are days of weakness. We fail every day. And people like you take cheap potshots. We have to be so careful to maintain unity. We can't go against those judgments made by those men in the 90s. To do so would be to divide from them and go off in independency.
Bert: To do so would be to divide from those men whom you are currently shunning?
Ernie: Them, yes. We've already been over that...
Bert: And why are you shunning them again?
Ernie: I don't like that word "shunning." We're being faithful. Of course we love them, but we have to step away due to their lack of love, mercy and acceptance. They were such troublemakers, too. We've been having such lovely meetings since they're gone. It's so quiet now. We love them in the Lord, of course, but they left us no other choice. They did it, not us. You of all people should know they're guilty of that bad stuff... What with your own history with them. I mean, did they ever show any grace or mercy to you?
Bert: No. But it's very hard to tell you from them. You're both talking and acting exactly the same way, as far as I can see.
Ernie: That is too much! How dare you compare us to them! What gives you that kind of arrogance? Stop attacking us! Honestly. These are days of weakness. We all fail so much! And no church is perfect. And God blesses us anyway. And if you keep wandering around until you find the perfect church, you'll be wandering around for the rest of your life.
Bert: I'm not wandering. I'm trying to talk to any and all Christians in the vicinity. Trying to learn about connecting to them and accepting diversity. To learn about how love would maybe work, if we decided to try it.
Ernie: That's a very dangerous course, given all the bad doctrine out there. All the unwillingness to follow scripture. Of course we love these people, but...
Bert: You're taking a stand against a widespread problem of unwillingness to follow scriptures about love, forgiveness and acceptance?
Ernie: In some cases, sadly yes. But more importantly, there is today such an unwillingness to take a firm position against evil. To take a step away from those who follow it.
Bert: Evil, like a lack of love, grace and forgiveness?
Ernie: I suppose, yes. But I'm thinking really more about the evil in accepting people and things we should faithfully reject. Some Christians think they can just worship with just any Christian at all! Even if there's clear evil!
Bert: And so now you're bravely taking a firm position against a lack of love and forgiveness? Against dividedness and excluding people for no good reason?
Ernie: Yes! We had a division about it and everything! I personally haven't spoken to my brother Steve in five years! I love him, but I can't walk with him. I've got nothing to say to him! Because of his views on accepting other Christians. He's an includer. An includer going off in independency, in direct disregard of the clear teachings of the divinely inspired Word of God!
Bert: That doesn't make sense to me. Any of that. I think you're even making up words.
Ernie: Well, Bert, you know we love you, but you clearly haven't been properly taught in the scriptures. I don't know what you've been reading. You're trying to discern things which are spiritually discerned. You're trying to use human reason to understand the unfathomable wisdom of God in His dealings with Man.
Bert: No doubt. Trying to use logic, and underline inconsistency I think I see, and so on.
Ernie: Yes. And the truly ironical thing is that you yourself are very inconsistent. Very inconsistent. You keep criticizing and attacking and accusing. Everyone knows it. And you're a gossip. Everyone's been saying that. How does it feel to live such a hypocritical life? To be so negative all the time? To be so critical? Where's your joy in the Things of the Lord? Who are you in happy fellowship with? What table are you associated with? You're not happy. Not like us and our adult children we can't get along with, who've all gone to other churches. They won't speak to us, but we love them dearly in the Lord and pray every day that they'll forsake this path of independency and error that they've embarked on. You're troubled. Which proves you have no relationship with Christ. Anyone can see that.
Bert: I'm just trying to make some kind of authentic connection with any of you that I can believe is real. Even with people like you. People I'm literally related to People with not only the same cultural heritage and upbringing, but the same genes, too. You know? You and I are actually literally related, Uncle Ernie...
Ernie: Well, you keep attacking people, Bert. Not helping keep quiet the kinds of things that would look bad to
outsiders who wouldn't understand the scriptural necessity and piety in
so many of these things we do. Exactly how much twisted pleasure do you derive from making other people uncomfortable? What kind of person is made happy by that kind of thing? Making others upset?
Bert: You mean by wanting to talk to them? By not wanting to simply "go away for good"? For having an opinion and being on Facebook? For believing in shining light under dark rocks?
Ernie: You know what I mean. Yes. Why can't you just go away? There are all kinds of churches who sadly aren't clear about proper principles of reception. They'd have you in a heartbeat. My brother Steve, for one, with his little group. They'd probably accept anyone!
Bert: I do talk to Uncle Steve sometimes. He says "hi." Says he's sorry you've forced him to have to step away from your evil. Says he missed your little talks. Problem is, I don't want membership in one specific church. I don't want to be forced to declare an allegiance. I want to talk to all Christians. In a natural way. Like regular human beings do. Ignoring the walls Christians seem to think exist between us all. I don't think those walls are real unless we pretend they are. I want to see if I can connect to any of you. Try to learn how love would work, if we really actually tried to do it.
Ernie: Exactly. That's what I've been trying to talk to you about. That unscriptural attitude you've got. Very modern. Very liberal. There are all kinds of churches out there that foolishly think they just somehow know better about the Word of God, and can just talk to anyone. They'd have you. They would. Steve probably would. So why are you bothering us? Honestly. Why can't you just go away? Move on? Put it behind you? Why?
Bert: The bible?
Ernie: Don't mock. These are very serious matters. It's no wonder we're shunning you.
Bert: Can you explain to me again why you're doing that?
Ernie: No. Look, Bert, I'm far too busy to continue this conversation. You go around and around in circles. You're always attacking the people God loves so much. You are clearly incapable of listening to reason. Goodbye.
Bert: And God be with you, too, Uncle Ernie.
Ernie: What?
Bert: God be with you, too. May He have things to say to you this week.
Ernie: I'll leave that up to Him, thank you very much!
Bert: And God be with you, too, Uncle Ernie.
Ernie: What?
Bert: God be with you, too. May He have things to say to you this week.
Ernie: I'll leave that up to Him, thank you very much!
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